السبت، 23 فبراير 2013

Global Higri Month: Identification and Implementation

    الشهر الهجري العالمي: شرح طريقة تعيينه واستخدامه في حل خلافات رؤية الهلال
                          Global Higri Month: Identification and Implementation

عزالدين كزابر Ezzuddin Kazaaber


الغرض من هذا الطرح العلمي، حل مشكلة الاختلاف المُزمن في تعيين بدايات الأشهر الهجرية، وخاصة شهري رمضان وشوال. وقد عرضنا في مقال سابق لنا "رجحان المقال في مسألة الهلال" رؤيتنا لعلاج هذا الاختلاف في صورة علمية أدبية تبسيطاً للمسألة وطريقة علاجها. .ونظراً لطلب عدد غير قليل من أعضاء: المشروع الإسلامي لرصد الأهلة  Islamic Crescents' Observation Project :ICOP ، مختصرا باللغة الإنجليزية لمقال "رجحان المقال في مسألة الهلال" المنشور هنا، والذي كان قد سبق نشره من قبل على موقع "الملتقى الفكري للإبداع" قبل توقفه. قمت بإعداد المختصر الآتي، ونشرته على منتداهم الموقر في الأيام القليلة الماضية، وقد أعقب نشره عددٌ من التعليقات والاستفسارات، قمت بالرد عليها، وأوردتها هنا عقب المختصر.

This proposal is a Two-Level Procedure Solution: A Basic procedure, and Supplementary Add Ins.
Basic Procedure: 
1- Predicting first visibility as a probability function of location and time.
2- Chasing Hilal Sighting According to prediction to achieve first real confirmed and certified Sighted Hilal.
3- On being sighted and certified, an official announcement is publicized to All Muslims (At Time T). New Higri month starts as of T (Global Sighting Announcement Instant).
4- According to T, those who are at Night at instant T (local Fajr time later than or equal to T) must start their new month instantly, and their first day starts at their local Fajr time. Those who are in daytime at Instant T ((local Fajr time earlier than T), start their new month (night) with their next local Maghrib, and their first day with their next local Fajr time.   
(Q.E.D.)




Supplementary (Add Ins) Refining Tools:

These include all details of best fulfilling basic procedure steps:
Which Prediction Model to adopt?, 
Which Sighting Method?, 
Certified Sighting Experts!, 
Sighting Management!, 
Official Announcement!  Etc.

Higri Calendar:

After accumulating real global sighting times, a (best-fit) (posteriori) mathematical model is built upon. This best-fit Model is to be adopted as the basis of Global Higri Calendar that minimizes future differences between the new modeled calendar and real sightings that must continually be undertaken - at least - for Higri Months (9,10,12).

Notes:

1- The (Red) Fajr geo-line that initiates the Higri month will certainly cut through many political countries and divide people therein between two week days for the start of the month (Ramadan/Eid el-Fitr/Eid el-Adhha).
Actually, unity of (a political country) under Hilal sighting is not a religious necessity, and it has never been. So, why make it a condition for Higri month validity?!
We have to remember that it is a spin-off of the modern national political system. And if it contradicts a proper Islamic requirement as the one we are dealing with here, it should be abandoned!

If we really care about proper religion practices, we have to choose proper month start (and Umma unity) even if it seems to contradict political country unity. Otherwise, politics will precede religious orders, and things get complicated in Shari’a for fictitious reasons! So, we have to make our choice between (either proper religious practice, or fictitious political country unity)

 Anyway, if we reflect on this issue, we will find that people will get used to the new method after a while. And what else?! .. People will get a new sense of (Higri/lunar day) which may start anywhere on earth; A new experience which they have never met before!
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2- I deliberately used the word (global) instead of (Ittihad Mataale’) to get rid of all implications associated with that old term.

3- I found no place to mention (Ikhtilaf Mataale’), since it is culturally dissolved by itself through acknowledging that (NIGHT) is a common phenomenon for all people on planet earth, and that instant communications leave no room for isolated people to lag behind others.
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4- I do recommend readers to review the original and detailed Arabic essay. It is more informative, even though it comes in a Literary Style.


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تعليقات عدد من أعضاء المشروع الإسلامي لرصد الأهلة والرد عليها

Comments of some ICOP members and Replies

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1- Salman Shaikh : Coordinator, Hilal Sighting Committee of North America

BismillaahIrRahmaanIrRaheem. Alhamdulillaah WasSalaatu WasSalaam Ala Rasulillaah Wa Ala Aalihi.
Wa Alaykum AsSalaam w.r. w.b.

This is a good attempt Masha'Allaah.
I would suggest the following changes insha'Allaah:
Once Hilal is sighted, it applies WESTWARDS to all areas with equal or greater probability of seeing the Hilal.
Applying it eastwards has problems such as news reaching just before Fajr to start fasting!
May Allaah SWT guide to the best. Aameen.

Jazakum Allaahu Khayran. WasSalaam.
Salman Zafar Shaikh, Ph.D.

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- Ezzuddin: 
Assalamu Alikum

Thank you for your immediate response,
Regarding your suggestion: [which is to apply Sighted Hilal only (WESTWARDS to all areas with equal or greater probability of seeing the Hilal.)]
I am afraid to say that, I do not support it for the following reasons:

1- It is not logical to see Hilal on the west coast of the Arabian Peninsula (Jeddah for instance) just after Maghrib, and prevent people 800 km to the east of Jeddah (Riyadh)- who are just after Esha- from adopting the new month!  (It is simply the same night), How come?!

2- If you extend this logic to a wider land, say: North America. You will find the same logic applies. You will have a difference of 4 Hours I think. So, you cannot prevent people on the east coast who are at midnight to start fasting when Hilal is seen on the west coast just after Maghrib.

3- Now, Extend this principle to an even wider country, like Russia. (See Figure (5) on my Arabic Document, http://kazaaber.blogspot.com/2012/10/blog-post_11.html).. Hha, Here comes the problem. When Hilal is seen in Moscow just after Maghrib, a wide area on the eastern part of Russia will already be in the next day (After Sunrise)! But there is no way to apply Fasting retroactively for wider and wider areas. So, we have to have a limit.

4- But, why we intervene with a fictitious limit when there is a natural limit, which is the end of Night and start of the next Day. This is nothing but Fajr line! SO, we have to adopt the Fajr line (indicated by the narrow red line on image of the attached English document – previous mail).

5- Then, the rule is to apply the sighted Hilal everywhere up to the eastern limit of Local Fajr time at the instant (T) of broadcasting official Hilal Sighting News.

6- This exact limit represents the Kernel of my Solution. I don’t think it is a matter of choice, it is a Must. It is the only sound and robust solution. The main obstacle against applying this natural solution is that people are unfamiliar with it. We have to have the courage to apply it, otherwise, the problem will continue forever. The problem lies actually in our local perspective. We have to get out of the box, i.e. look at the problem globally. Only then it will become crystal clear.

Regards,
Ezzuddin Kazaaber

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2- Salman Shaikh

Wa Alaykum AsSalaam w.r. w.b.

Applying the results of sighting Eastwards more than a couple of time zones is big hardship. What if you inform someone 1 minute or few seconds before start of Fajr that they have to fast? Is that fair on them? I don't believe Allaah SWT asks for such hardship.
Scholars allow "Matala" to be applied eastwards to some extent. But it has to be practical and not very long time difference.
There is no harm in people in the East starting a day late by using their own local sighting.

Jazakum Allaahu Khayran. WasSalaam.
Salman Zafar Shaikh,

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- Ezzuddin: 

Assalamu Alikum Brother Salman

1- Regarding (hardship in applying results Eastward):
      This is the critical problem of boundaries. You find in many situations: in defining Fajr Time, Asr time, in performing prayer at the last moment before next Azaan, … etc. This kind of problem is not solved by cancelling Fardh (Prayer, Fasting, ..) but by putting Criteria for relief margins and easy performance. If you remember, people in the past had no watches with which they estimate time left for next Fardh. Their only reminder was Azaan.

      For the case of Hilal Sighting: Regulations can be arranged by Scholars like that:

A - People expecting critical news because of their location near Fajr line should be on alert (actually all of us are on alert on such a night).

B – According to Sunna a margin of time (equal to reading 50 Ayaat) should be allowed between Sohoor and Fajr Time. (say 5 minutes). This can be declared to be a margin of relief. I mean, if the difference between (T: the announced timing of the new month) and local Fajr Time is less than 5 minutes, no harm in not admitting the new month.

C- This issue of criticality is not happening but to small portion of the globe, and it is circulating from side to side of the earth, including oceans. So, it will happen to a given location only few times in life time with improved Hilal visibility predictions .

D- This moment of criticality will be a joyful moment rather than a hardship one, Because the result of which is that you either be the first to start fasting (or have Eid), or the last one!

2- Regarding (allowance for "Matale’" to be applied eastwards to some extent by scholars):
Actually, there is no practical definition of “Matla’”. It is a vague idea put by scholars long time ago to express unknowability of Hilal sighting in distant locations! And it is a mix of expected differential visibility, together with information isolation of widespread Muslim communities. Also, Scholars cannot extend or not extend Matla’, that is lacking definition. The whole idea of Matla’ has to be put on scrutiny. When this is done, it will become clear that, it is an obsolete idea, and useless for any practical applicability.

3- Regarding saying: (No harm in people in the East starting a day late):
This is OK for a very limited excuse or error, like any other religious duty. But No scholar can allow for that and take the responsibility.

4- Regarding the words (their own local sighting) in the sentence (There is no harm in people in the East starting a day late by using their own local sighting):
To say (their own sighting) you allow for (our sighting), (some other people’s sighting), etc.: this is OK for isolated communities in the past. Nowadays, there is no more isolation. Hilal sighting happening anywhere on Earth is everyone’s sighting. Our Hilal is theirs, and their Hilal is ours. We are all one community. This is a true fact we have to adjust to, otherwise we will continue to live in the past with open eyes; A dreadful dilemma.
Brother Salman: forgive me for my style. I have to be definitive. It is a duty, and I am taking the responsibility:

Regards,
Ezzuddin Kazaaber
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3- Dr Abdurrazak Ebrahim 
Respected Brother Ezzuddin Kazaaber,
Assalaamu-Alayqum

Quote: (It is simply the same night)
Kindly explain in detail.

As an addition ..  could you kindly furnish textual evidence regarding ‘the same’ night in respect of Hilaal sighting.

Shukr
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- Ezzuddin:

Dear Brother Abdurrazak
Assalamu Alikum

 By “the same night” I mean:

1- It is the extended darkness of night, not intervened by “daylight”. And the passing of which marks a passing of one “whole week-night” on whatever surface area on the globe, from a given reference latitude in the Pacific Ocean and progressing westward back to the same reference around. This is a whole and the same night under one umbrella.

2- Any given area on the globe, however small or big (Bahrain, USA, Russia, a continent, or the whole globe), when swept –partially or wholly- by that night with time, is marked by just one and the same week-night.

3- If Hilal is sighted on Night-forefront (Maghrib) somewhere, that sighting triggers that night as the first Night for Higri-Calendar from the moment of sighting (Practically: moment of announcing).

4- The only alternative of that global same-night-Sighting perspective is to divide the globe swept by night into subdivisions depending on some criteria. But no single clear criterion is definitively applicable.

5- If any such criterion is claimed (Under the general collective title of “Ikhtilaf Matale’”), it is neither visualizable nor defendable under the critical analysis of Ibn-Taymyia, when he said:

 [إذا اعتبرنا حداً (لمطلع الرؤية للقائلين باختلاف المطالع) : كمسافة القصر أو الأقاليم فكان رجل في آخر المسافة والإقليم، فعليه أن يصوم ويفطر وينسك، وآخر بينه وبينه غلوة سهم لا يفعل شيئا من ذلك. وهذا ليس من دين المسلمين . فالصواب في هذا - والله أعلم - ما دل عليه قوله : { صومكم يوم تصومون وفطركم يوم تفطرون وأضحاكم يوم تضحون } فإذا شهد شاهد ليلة الثلاثين من شعبان أنه رآه بمكان من الأمكنة قريب أو بعيد وجب الصوم .] (ابن تيمية، مجموع الفتاوى، 25/105).

Which I translate to: [If we suppose that there is a claimed Matla’ and has a known boundary, like: “Qasr distance”, or some regional mark. We will find a man just at this boundary who starts the new month accordingly, and just beyond that boundary, another man in sight, who is not obliged to claim the new month. This perspective is not recognized in the Deen of Islam. The proper Fatwa – God knows Better – is what is understood by the Prophet (PBUH) saying: {Your fasting day is when you all fast, and Your Fitr-Day is when you all have Fitr, and Your Adhha-Eid is when you all have Adhha}. So, if Hilal is sighted on the 30th night of Sha’baan by an eyewitness somewhere, whether it is near of far, Fasting is then obligatory to all.] (Ibn-Taymyia, Majmou’ El-Fatawa, 25/105)

6- The inevitable conclusion is that: “The non-existence of feasible “Ikhtilaf Matale’” criteria forces us to adopt “Ittihad Matale’””. And according to my thesis, this is neither possible nor manageable, but through the proposed method of (Global - same-night - Hilal Sighting).

Regards,
Ezzuddin Kazaaber

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4- Riyaz Ladha 

Salaam

Read with interest, however it seems to wipe off one of the two main approaches at a stroke! See "3- I found no place to mention (Ikhtilaf Mataale’), since it is culturally dissolved by itself through acknowledging that (NIGHT) is a common phenomenon for all people on planet earth, and that instant communications leave no room for isolated people to lag behind others."    As easy as that!

Sent from iPhone
 

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- Ezzuddin:

Brother Riyaz Ladha 
Wa Alikum As-Salaam

It seems to me that you are not happy with my wording and content!
Anyway, I justified my Thesis of rejecting (Ikhtilaf Mataale’) in current modern cultural status, within previous replies to Brothers Salman and -especially- Abdurrazak. Please refer to it. I hope you will find it convincing.
If you are not convinced because of some good reason, I am interested to know it.
If you have an opposite attitude, justify it.
I am seeking the best answers, whether it is yours, mine, or someone else.

Regards,
Ezzuddin Kazaaber

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5- Javad Torabinejad 


Dear brother salam,

I believe this method is already being used by some people around the world.  They say if two locations on earth share the same night (i.e. Maghrib in one (A) and Fajr in another one (B)), if the crescent is observed in A then, B would follow the sighting of A.  Some people go even further by saying if there was the possibility of sighting in A then B would follow.  It will be difficult for some countries if the Fajr line intersects them which it could easily happen.  Then, would it be acceptable if those countries either observe the sighting or totally disregard it.  The alternative will be having two observances in one country which I personally do not mind!

With regards,
javad 

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- Ezzuddin:

Brother Javad
Assalamu alikum

1- Quote { I believe this method is already being used by some people around the world }.
I don’t know if this method is used or proposed by others! Anyway, it will be good news for me to find other supports to this solution, and to know what level of sophistication they may have reached.. So, I appreciate if you have more information about these people and their work.

2- Regarding “the possibility of sighting”. I consider it to be just a mathematical non-zero probability value for a given location and time. It remains useless prediction of no practical religious obligations until it leads to an actual official sighting; reported, confirmed, and announced.

3- Regarding “Fajr line intersecting some countries” and its implications, I mentioned that in the original attached English document, page 2 comment: 1.
4- Regarding your question “would it be acceptable if those countries either observe the sighting or totally disregard it?” I understand that you are talking about a country that happened to be bisected by Fajr-Line at the moment (T) of Sighted-Hilal being announced. If they will follow the proposed solution, the west part of the country of that identified Fajr line would be the first on earth to fast Ramadan (have the new month), and the east part of Fajr line would be the last on the globe to fast.
When Maghrib time reaches that (bisected) country after (say 12 hours), the first part who have already started fasting, should have their Iftar by then, and the other part will lag behind by one day only for the start of Ramadan. By the end of Ramadan, the Fajr line will not pass the same country, but will proceed westward by at least 0.28 of earth’s revolution (see fig.5 on this link: http://kazaaber.blogspot.com/2012/10/blog-post_7.html). So for that country –most probably- all people will end Ramadan in the same week-day, the west part of which would have by then completed 30 days of Ramadan, and the east part would have 29 days), the new Fajr line of Shawwal will divide another country (ies). Again, the west side of which will be the first on Earth to have Eid-Fitr , and the east side will lag behind by one day, and will be the last people to have Eid-Fitr.

5- observing Hilal in any other country after the first observation have been announced - will not be obligatory, since it furnishes no use or change of confirmed sighting and official announcement. But people there can do it to feel free (استئناس) and make sure that Hilal is already there in the sky. The Hilal must be there. If it is not sighted, it would be because of unfavorable weather conditions.

6- It is very important to note that this solution is completely country-independent. Bisected countries by Fajr line at the start of any Higri month is a circumstantial event. Official decision makers should not get confused by such a situation. All announcements should be based on the Global Timing of the new month (T), which is to be administered by an International Islamic Agency. If all regions of a given country happen to be at night at (T), officials should declare start of month to all residents. If Fajr line happens to bisect the country, Officials must inform people to accommodate for T (in local time) and local Fajr time for every location. If T happens to be before Fajr, people have to start their new month, Otherwise no.

Regards,
Ezzuddin Kazaaber
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6- Salman Shaikh 

AsSalaamu Alaykum w.r. w.b. 

This argument of "unity" is not correct.. "Our Hilal is theirs" is not correct.

1) Many scholars interpret the plural world "Ahilla" in the Qur'an to mean local sighting, as different parts of the world see hilals at different times/days (and of different thickness.size).

2) Our Sun is also their Sun! But this does not mean that we should pray Fajr worldwide at the same time for sake of "unity"!
Unity lies in following Qur'an and Sunnah. Not in artificially forcing worldwide times into one, which was never done and is impossible due to Spherical Earth. One Hilal concept only applies to "Flat Earth".

Do you really believe 5 minutes is enough for everyone to do Suhoor and is not a hardship? I don't think so. I think even getting news very late at night is a hardship And it is not as rare as you portray. If  you are talking of news reaching 8 hours after local sunset, then that affects 8/24 or about one quarter of the globe!

You mention regarding the East ignoring the Hilal of West since it is very late for them:
"No scholar can allow for that and take the responsibility."
Obviously this is not true. There the majority of scholars today are following this and this is the only practical solution due to Spherical Earth and Time zones.

By the way, regarding the concept of accepting the hilal sighting from another place, if you have equal of higher probability of sighting the hilal, means using the concept of "sharing the visibility curve" which I believe Sheikh Fadl Allaah in the Middle East has endorsed. But in a general sense, this means acceptance of a sighting going west (within the visibility parabola) which everyone does indirectly as the Hilal becomes bigger and easier to be seen going west as sunset is later and later. This also does not impose any hardship and in fact brings ease as the news comes sooner (provided it is genuine sighting and not erroneos like the usual Saudi case).

May Allaah SWT guide to Haq with Khayr. Aameen.
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- Khan Sohail Sultan: 

Dear ICOP Brothers,
With due respect I may ask few questions from our Brother Dr.Salman.

A. If 'our moon is not their moon', then how many moons are there to sight in a single night at different times and various Geographical Locations on planet earth???

B. You agree that 'our Sun is their Sun' but  condemn 'unity' by a lame logic that every one can't
 Pray  Fajar worldwide same time. Yes every one Pray Fajar worldwide same time before  Sunrise same day. This is according to Allah Subhanautala's creation and design. All the prayers are said Round The Clock Round The World same night, same day  and same time related to apparent movement of the Sun. Is this not a Unity???

C. We sight Ramzan Cresnt in five different places and Holy months starts on five different days.
How many days the Holy month will have? How many 'Lailatul Qadr' will appear in one month of Holy Ramzan???
D. After 1400 years yet, we the Pioneers of Astronomy and Mathematics, have not been able to come out of the confusion about moon sighting and fixing correct lunar months.
Crescent Sighting is not an Ibada but means to perform Ibada on  correct dates according Sharia?
E. 'Hardship' .How would you resolve hardship issues, in areas where During Ramzan the Day is 23 hors long???

Wasalaam
Capt.Sultan
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- Ezzuddin:

Brother Salman
Assalamu Alikum


1- Quote: “This argument of "unity" is not correct.. "Our Hilal is theirs" is not correct.

I am not defending a forced unity.

I am presenting a proof of common Hilal Sighting and Same-Night launch of Lunar Higri month. This means that I am defending a natural unity of the case, not a fictitious one.


My Proof is the following:

a- If Hilal was sighted in city (A), and there is city (B) at a distance (X) Eastward.

b- What is the farthest distance (X) that satisfy you to preserve A’Hilal as B’s Hilal?

c- For sure you will accept X= 10 km, 100km,  .. up to some limit

d- My question is: What is the limit of X, beyond which you built your judgment on the incorrectness of my wording "Our Hilal is theirs"?

e- You cannot have not a limit, and you will find no justifiable limit!

f- How come then you built your judgment on an indefinable limit?

g- The Hilal Case is a quantitative case, not a Qualitative one.

h- “No limit” translates in Fiqh into “No Constrain” or “No Restriction” "غير مقيد", which  definitely implies in Fiqh the opposite, which is “Unrestricted” مطلق. That is why they say in Fiqh that every Hokm is either UNRESTRICTED مطلق, or RESTRICTED مقيد, with no more alternatives.

i- Now, your Hokm "Our Hilal is not theirs"  is surely RESTRICTED  مقيد.

j- Now, with every RESTRICTED Hokm there must be a statement which definitively define the restriction. If you have none, the case is UNRESTRICTED مطلق.

k- So, "Our Hilal is theirs" is a correct statement. QED

(By the way, this is the proof of “Ittihad el-Matale’”)

Now, if you say that you follow “Ikhtilaf el-Matale’” go to “Ibn-Taymiya disproof” I mentioned up in my reply to Brother Abdurrazak, item #5.



2- Quote “Many scholars interpret the plural world "Ahilla" in the Qur'an to mean local sighting

This is not to be considered justification for “local sighting” by the mere mention of the word “Ahilla” in Quran. It is a proposal of a possible meaning to “Ahilla” with what is perceived by these scholars in their local communities as “local sighting”.



3- Quote “Our Sun is also their Sun! But this does not mean that we should pray Fajr worldwide at the same time for sake of "unity"!

This statement is to be directed to whoever is saying “Our Hilal is theirs, so we have to start fasting at the same time (moment)”.

But, my statement (through my proposal) is: “Our Hilal is theirs, so we have to recognize the new month at the same time (moment T)”, then, every Muslim start fasting according to his local Fajr time that comes definitely later that (T).

I am really surprised to what you are claiming on my side.



4- Quote “Unity lies in following Qur'an and Sunnah. Not in artificially forcing worldwide times into one, which was never done and is impossible due to Spherical Earth. One Hilal concept only applies to "Flat Earth".”

- Here is Sunna which forces the unity you are denying: (Quoted from Ibn-Taymia mentioned before): (prophet PBUH says): { صومكم يوم تصومون، وفطركم يوم تفطرون، وأضحاكم يوم تضحون } : {Your fasting day is when you all fast, and Your Fitr-Day is when you all have Fitr, and Your Adhha-Eid is when you all have Adhha}.(Ibn-Taymyia, Majmou’ El-Fatawa, 25/105)

Obviously it implies (unity of Hilal recognition), even though Earth is not Flat!



5- Quote “Do you really believe 5 minutes is enough for everyone to do Suhoor and is not a hardship?”

I didn’t say that, I said exactly: “According to Sunna a margin of time (equal to reading 50 Ayaat) should be allowed between Sohoor and Fajr Time. (say 5 minutes). This can be declared to be a margin of relief.”

This statement has nothing to do with the time-laps of having Sohoor! It is the time of having Neyia نية with relief. It is very clear. Whoever is expecting a possible start of fasting should have prepared for that beforehand. I am taking from Sunna the margin between Sohoor-End and Fajr time, No More.


6- Quote “I think even getting news very late at night is a hardship And it is not as rare as you portray. If  you are talking of news reaching 8 hours after local sunset, then that affects 8/24 or about one quarter of the globe!
It is not calculated like that my brother.
People receiving Hilal News are not concerned with anything other than that the moment (T) of Hilal Announcement. Now, the issue here is only with people approaching Fajr time at (T). If we want to calculate the probability of the globe sector for those people, we have to assign some given time difference between T and local Fajr. If we assign Half Hour, it means that only 1/48 of global surface will be in 30-minutes critical period! If we have 3 such cases in the year (Ramadan and 2 Eids), probability will be 3/48 = 1/16. Which amount to 6.25%
This means that every Muslim on Earth will not encounter such a situation once every 16 Hilal sightings. Since there are 3 every year, it will happen once every 5.3 years.
If you go down with the really critical situation to 15 minutes as a difference between (T) and Fajr, the probability goes down to once every 10.6 years. If you go down to the really hard situation of 5 minutes, probability of encounter is once every 32 years.
If you remember that 70%of earth’s surface is water, it means that 70% of these accumulated critical situations will encounter no body!
 So feel free, it is a really rare occasion for local communities.

7- Quote: “You mention regarding the East ignoring the HIlal of West since it is very late for them: "No scholar can allow for that and take the responsibility." Obviously this is not true. There the majority of scholars today are following this and this is the only practical solution due to Spherical Earth and Time zones.”
I said "No scholar can allow for that and take the responsibility" in reply of your warding “No harm in people in the East starting a day late”.
If you consider “the East ignoring the Hilal of West since it is very late for them” a legitimate excuse for “starting a day late”, how come it is not an excuse for night plane travel and night camping and all night watching a nice movie … etc. ?!
Read “Ibn Taymyia” again saying: (Majmou’ El-Fatawa, 25/105)
 “إذا شهد (شاهد) بالرؤية نهار تلك الليلة (ليلة الثلاثين من شعبان) إلى الغروب، فعليهم (أي المشهود لهم) إمساك ما بقى"
“if some people got the Hilal sighting news  on the 30th of Shabban, any time after Fajr,  they have to continue that day fasting from the moment of getting the news till Maghrib”
This Fatwa was OK for isolated communities, but not now for our Global status. Now, what do you expect from Ibn-Taymia to tell those people getting the news before Fajr? Are they allowed to cancel fasting the day that is about to start, just for the excuse of late news? and by themselves, or by whoever Scholar now on Earth?!
I swear Ibn-Taymia wouldn’t allow them to cancel that day. This is not because he is Ibn Taymyia, but because of his logical reasoning. And because of his logical reasoning he is Ibn Taymyia.

8- Quote “The majority of scholars today are following this and this is the only practical solution due to Spherical Earth and Time zones.”
The majority of scholars are trapped in (political boundaries)-Fatwas. Those who are freed from these political traps are caught by implications of Ikhtilf Matale’; a concept that was articulated for information-isolated communities; a concept from the past; a historical concept.

My final ward here is to extend – say – Saudi Arabia gradually to include more and more land, wouldn’t it - by then- have the same night fasting? – continue that process until it covers the whole Earth. The only possible solution by then would be my solution!  So the issue is political boundaries and adopting old Fatwas written to suit isolated communities.

Regards,
Ezzuddin Kazaaber
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

7- Salman Shaikh . AsSalaamu Alaykum w.r. w.b. 


First, let me say that the difference in what you are advocating and what I am advocating is small. We are both against Global sighting since this is impossible due to Spherical Earth. The difference is that I don't want to apply the sighting going East much since it becomes late at night and is thus a hardship. We both want to apply it westwards.

1) If Hilal Sighting is applies westwards, then the Islamic month starts all over the world within 24 hours, but due to the Artificial International Date line, this is two solar dates. By the way, at any given moment of time, there are two solar dates in different parts of the world. E.g. right now it is Thursday in New York, but Friday in Asia. If we restrict the application westward to the visibility parabola then the start in different places can be more than 24 hours apart especially as we approach the polar areas, but there can be exception rules applied for them.

2) The real reason for more than 24 hour difference in start of month in much of the populated world is Saudi errors and also new "criterion" like conjunction or CCD imaging.

3) To my knowledge Ibn Taimiya supported Ikhtilaaf AlMataale, as stated by Sh. AlOthaimeen RH in Fatawa Islamiya which is in my paper at http://www.hilalsighting.org/papers/salman.pdf
---------------------------------------------------------
- Ezzuddin: 

Dear Brother Salman

Assalamu Alikum

I am afraid not. The differences in our perspectives are numerous. Any fair review of the previous dialogue/debate expresses wide separation of attitudes.

It is very strange to say that I am against Global Sighting, while I am defending Global sighting in every respect!


On my side, there is no impossibility in Global sighting because of spherical Earth. It is your claim.

Although the sentence “We both want to apply it westwards.” Is correct, but it does not mean anything more than the statement “We both want a bird to have a right wing to fly” while we disagree on the need for a left wing. I am saying: it has to have, and you are saying: it is hard for the bird to have that too much load!

My Solution is a whole solution, it does not work partially. If tried partially, it will lose its credibility in logic and Full-View Perspective. You either take it or leave it. No compromise!

Regarding “Islamic month” and Higri Calendar, - As I said in my attached English Document, page.2 – It is dependent on proper Hilal sighting, and it has to conform to it. Adjustment of Islamic month and Higri Calendar can never be achieved without proper “Hilal Sighting”. It is like building on no stable ground.

Regards.
Ezzuddin Kazaaber
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

8- Sani Mustapha 
Assalamu alaika Ezzuddin.

I am highly pleased with your reference. I have been calling the followers of Muhammad in this forum that all that we need today has been done long time ago by well-known respected Islamic scholars and I mentioned Vol.25 of the Fatawa of ibn Taymiyya. No one dared to be bold to refer to him and withdraw his unsheathed sword. I do not know why you kept quiet until now. 

I never wanted to participate again in this forum, because some of the followers of Muhammad are daringly inventing explanation of the Qur'an a responsibility of Muhammad - the Sunna. They attacked Muhammad Odeh while he denied saying anything against the Sunna. A Saudi astrophysicist confirmed to me that Saudi Arabia does not dictate on moon sighting. But because of obsessive compulsiveness they go by the Ummul Qura calendar and invent expressions like Ikhtilaf Mattale, Imkan, CCD etc, while Muhammad says,"If we sight it fast,  and break your fast. If it is 29 complete 30 days." Again Ibn Taymiyya revealed on p. 183 the sighting of the moon at dawn on the 28th AND 27th. What does one need to know?
I am also a scientist always afraid on going against the Sunna. But here we are!
There are other serious issues like praying. What is your view on the book on the Sunna during prayers ISBN 1468070444?

Mustapha.

---------------------------------------------------------
- Ezzuddin: 

Dear Brother Mostafa
Asslamu Alikum

- I appreciate your encouraging comments.

- But it is not clear to me how far you agree with my Proposal?

- I don’t have access to your book, and my time constraints are extremely tight,

So, I hope that you have some PREVIEW, or “Conclusive Statement” that you intended to say through the book.


Regards,
Ezzuddin Kazaaber
--------------------------------------------------------- 
Sani Mustapha:

Salaam Ezzuddin.
I have been reading that vol. 25 since 1992, and that is my standard on moonsighting. So, I must have agreed with you. I will print your view and translate myself. Yes, once you open the website you will see it.
Mustapha

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

9- Dr. Mohib. N. Durrani 

As Salaamu Alykum Dear brother Kazaaber,

Please kindly extend your proposal to the places that have ~ 6 Months of night time (above the Arctic and below the Antarctic Circles. Are there any limits/exceptions that you would like to add to your proposal?
Jazakumullahu Khaira,

Mohib.

---------------------------------------------------------
- Ezzuddin:

Brother Mohib Durrani 
Assalamu Alikum

My ”Global Gigri Month” proposal is concerned only with Higri lunar months’ ticks. It says that there is only one tick (T) that launches Higri month to all Muslims wherever they are; on the equator or on the poles. The next logical step is to make use of local settings of Fajt Time, upon which local communities can know there status of when to start their first day of the new month in a span of 24 hours beyond the instant (T). It goes like this: the first local day of the new month will start at (T+xhours), where the limits are (x=0 for Fajr time = T, and x= 24 hours for Fajr time = T+24h) inclusive.


For locations where Fajr time is not defined, e.g. Arctic Regions, I suppose a possible resolution, independent of the original ”Global Gigri Month” solution. This resolution is to identify an upper latitude (Lat0), on which Prayer times: Dhohr, Asr, Maghrib, Eisha’, and Fajr are well defined, and beyond that latitude prayer times are labeled officially an (Indefinable) be some Islamic committee (In Europe or North America). My resolution now is to copy that upper latitude (Lat0) prayer times to all locations northward Arctic (Southward Antarctic), but longitude-wise. As an example; if the mentioned upper latitude is 600, then prayer times for (Lat>60 ,Long) = prayer times for (Lat=60 ,Long).

Then the general rule should be something like this:

Prayer times (Lat>Lat0 ,Long) = Prayer times (Lat0 ,Long)


Then, Fajr (Lat0 ,Long) is the Fajr time upon which communities in the arctic region compare with (T: the new month's launch) to decide their first day start of the new month.



Regards,
Ezzuddin Kazaaber
----------------------------------------------------------

-Sani Mustapha 

Salaam.
Those living in such conditions are excluded from fasting and praying because they have no 'ILLA'- the sun. The Shari'a is governed by an 'ILLA'. I hope to visit antarctic to share that experience.

Mustapha
----------------------------------------------------------
- Usman El-Nafaty:

Masha Allah! What a Fatwa!

Those living in such conditions are excluded from fasting and praying because they have no 'ILLA'- the sun......

Do I understand by this you have exempted them from daily prayers and fasting?
So a Muslim not praying and not fasting? Please clarify.

On a very serious note, I think we must be very very careful to weigh our utterances on issues regarding this great dean of Islam. 

Salams
Usman
----------------------------------------------------------
Ezzuddin:

Brother Mustapha
Assalamu alikum

According to the following Hadeeth about "al-Maseeh ad-Dajjal'' (Antichrist) in Saheeh Muslim your Hokm of exempting sun-less people from Prayer and Fasting is fallacious.

{... قلنا يا رسول الله وما لبثه في الأرض قال أربعون يوماً يومٌ كسنة، ويومٌ كشهر، ويومٌ كجمعة، وسائر أيامه كأيامكم. قلنا يا رسول الله: فذلك اليوم الذي كسنة؛ أتكفينا فيه صلاة يوم قال لا اقدروا له قدره ...}

Which I translate to: { ..(Companions of the Prophet PBUH speaking:) We said: Oh, messenger of Allah, How long will he (Antichrist ) stay in Earth? He (Prophet) said: Forty days; a day as long as a year, and a day as along as a month, and a day as long as a week, and all the other days are like your normal days. We (companions) said: Oh, messenger of Allah, in that day which is as long as a year! would it be enough to have prayers of one normal day? - He (Prophet) said: NO, arrange for it what it deserves of prayers.}

So, There is No Exemption of Prayer and Fasting because of sun's absence or long stay. In case it happens, a timing substitute must be arranged. Sun is not more than a timer, not a reason. If someone loses his timer that alarms him to go to work, he simply buy another one, and give no excuse of Exemption from work.

Whoever has the authority of Exemption of some order, is the one who has authority of the order itself!

Regards,
Ezzuddin Kazaaber
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

10- elkhalil ould mohamdi


Ibn Teymiya  suppose that the visibility is a continous phenomena  regarding  to geographic coordinate's observer ,what is wrong .I'l continue in french:



la possibilité de voire le croissant lunaire n'est evidemment pas un phénomène continu (au sens mathématique du terme) mais avec le temps les parametres de la possibilité de visibilité s'ameliore progressivement (luminosité,elongation;...)ainsi deux personnes séparées de quelques mètres peuvent se trouver dans des conditions différentes: l'une dans des conditions ou le croisant lunaire se couche avant le coucher du soleil et l'autre 9 heures après lecontraire. Ajouter à cela la différence d'acuité visuelle entre les deux observateurs!
---------------------------------------------------------
- Ezzuddin:

Brother mohamdi 
Asslamu alikum

If we read the statement of Ibn Teymiya as stated, and project it onto our culture without intervention or scientific interpretation, we will find that he is criticizing the following situation:

Two Muslims standing on the political border fence separating two countries, one on each side of the fence. One of them has Ramadan started already as announced by his country officials and the other one is expecting Ramadan after one day (or may be more).

What Ibn Teymiya  is saying is that this situation is inconceivable in the Deen of Islam, i.e. it cannot be accepted by any means as legitimate, and hence, whatever Fatwa resulted in such a situation (that divides continuous land having the same night or the same day, in which one of them is lagging the other by one day or more ), that Fatwa must be erroneous.

That is the message I understand clearly from his literal Arabic statement. It is very clear and explicit.

It is not important to know the exact reason behind such a situation which forced the officials of the two neighboring countries to disagree on the first day. What is really important is that at least one of them – if not both of them- must be in error in evaluating the start of the month.

So, we have an extremely important conclusion here, which is, (according to Ibn Teymiya):
[The correct Fatwa of the start of the Higri month must not result in two neighboring 
countries having the same night and start Ramadan (or any Higri month) on two successive days (or more).]

Regards,
Ezzuddin Kazaaber
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

11- Gulamhussein Amjid Hussein:

Salams to all;

Brother Sheikh Kaazaber’s article is a serious, feasible, practical solution,
with support in the shariah.
There is no such practical reality as “mataale” as geographical area.
The origin of “mataale” Is actually in qasr salah, which is in reality the distance of journey.
The adaption of mataale to lunar dating is novel, intended to solve
a difficulty, but creates dificulties of its own.
Are Riyadh and Makkah in different mataales?
The essence of Sheikh Kaazaber’s thesis is ( to paraphrase) “
same lunar date for the area which is enveloped by the same night”
the night being from maghrib to fajr.
I recall a scholarly article by an Alim supporting this.

A .H. Gulam-Hussein
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

12 Salman Zafar Shaikh


Dear Br. Ezzuddin,

Since you are restricting the following of HIlal Sighting to those sharing the night, you are not following Ittihaad AlMatale or Global Sighting. Global sighting is IMPOSSIBLE due to Spherical Earth and resulting Time Zones. If the Hilal is first sighted in New York, it is already morning in many places including Indonesia, Japan etc. - too late to start fasting.

I have also given you reference that Sh. Ibn Taimiya promoted Local sighting - Ikhtilaaf AlMataale, as do most scholars today. There is of course room for discussion on how far a sighting applies. You are promoting application to those who share the night. Others promote the application to those who share the Visibility curve, with a city/town being an indivisible unit.
In any case, going west there is no problem as the Hilal would be bigger and more easy to seen.

Going too far East is where hardship comes - informing people too late at night. I don't think we have to make Islam that difficult artificially.

May Allaah SWT guide to the best. Aameen.
Jazakum Allaahu Khayran. WasSalaam

Salman Zafar Shaikh

---------------------------------------------------------
Ezzuddin:

 Asslamu alikum Brother Salman 

The whole issue is concentrated in your words "You are promoting application to those who share the night. Others promote the application to those who share the Visibility curve, with a city/town being an indivisible unit."

Actually you will not find a city/town divided in Fajr time; Salat time table is acceptable in this regard, in most normal cases. So, it is not hard as it may seem. More investigation will reveal that it is not hard at all. 

According to those who promote the application to sharing the Visibility curve, I think they are not justified by the fact that the news of Hilal sighting were being collected from incoming Pilgrims to Mecca without any restriction on how far they are coming from or which direction. You must notice also that Hajj days are postponed to or assigned after a week long of the start of the month of Hajj (Zol-Hijja). The reason - or Hekma - is simply to collect enough information from incoming pilgrims to Mecca on when exactly did they saw Hilal on their way.

So, if Hilal is sighted and the news spread, it is a sign for all people that the new month has started. Every Muslim should act accordingly; with his next Fajr as the first moment of fasting. So, there was no need to say: [(If) Hilal is first sighted in New York, it is already morning in many places including Indonesia, Japan etc. - too late to start fasting] because I have already said a number of times that whoever is in the next morning, he has to wait for his next local night to start Ramadan.

-------------
Quote: "Since you are restricting he following of HIlal Sighting to those sharing
the night, you are not following Ittihaad AlMatale or Global Sighting."

Actually I am not restricting those who follow Hilal sighing to any portion of the earth's surface!...  You know that Those who are not at night will be at night gradually, and they simply lag behind the others as time passes minute by minute, until all Muslims are covered by one continuous night in 24 hours. the local end of which - i.e. Fajr time - is the local fasting moment. 

--------------
Quote: "I have given you reference that Sh. Ibn Taimiya promoted Local sighting - Ikhtilaaf AlMataale, as do most scholars today."

Regarding Ibn Tayimia: it is not justifiable that he promoted local sighting! in a time where there ere no other option! Thus  Ikhtilaaf AlMataale was not real  Ikhtilaaf in Mataale, it was an expression to embody locality, not more. 

What  Ibn Tayimia really defied was artificial boundaries, as I quoted before (Al-Majmou', 25/109), and this is not more than  Ikhtilaaf AlMataale. So he was against it.

Regarding scholars today, they are not really following Ikhtilaaf AlMataale. They are not building their Fatwas on any definition on Mataale. Their Fatwas are mostly country-wise, sect-wise, or something else. Look at Saudi Arabia, 1350 km east-to-west, and any Hilal sighting on the west coast is approved on the Gulf that far right waway, without questioning its validity within any Matla'. But if Hilal is sighted somewhere else, say Yamen or Jordan, even one km on the border, it is not to be considered! 

--------------
Quote: "Global sighting is IMPOSSIBLE due to Spherical Earth and resulting Time Zones. If the Hilal is first sighted in New York, it is already morning in many places including Indonesia, Japan etc. - too late to start fasting."

If you review the case with a big enough county - as Russia - as I came across it before, the view will become clearer on where to put an eastern natural limit. Note: the limit must be natural. The visibility curve is not natural, it is calculated. in addition to being an unjustified. 

The whole Solution should be seamlessly transient between our modern days and the days of the prophet PBUH: exemplified in actual Hilal sighting, and natural signs of day and night. The added privileges of modern day technology is restricted to more accurate prediction of visibility, and faster and far reaching news. it is not touching on the original process of Sharia'. If these privileges are removed, the original process is restored.

Regards
Ezzuddin
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

13 Salman Zafar Shaikh



Wa Alaykum AsSalaam w.r. w.b.
I have heard from scholars that:
1) The dates in Makkah and Medina at the time of Prophet Muhammad SAW
were not synchronized and sometimes different
2) Some people arrived late for Hajj due to expectation according to
their own local date.

For over a thousand years, people in far away lands could not be
informed about Makkah sighting even in 10 days. How could Allaah SWT
ask for something impossible?

Salman Zafar Shaikh
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Ezzuddin:

Assalamu Alikum Brother Salman


it must be expected that the dates between any two locations 400 km apart are not synchronized. News do not reach in such a distance, by older transportation, but after 5 days and nights!

In Hajj time, the governor in charge of Hajj (Ameer ElHajj) used to ask people coming to hajj in the first few days of Zul-Hijja on when did they saw the new Hilal on their way to Mekka? if it was seen in the same night as have been seen in Mekka, it is OK, if it is earlier and confirmed by the Rules of Shehada, he usually adopts their Sighting, and proclaim the Hajj days accordingly.

So, the issue of asynchronous Higri dates goes back to Hilal sighting News unavailability, not specific distances. A night somewhere is the same night everywhere wherever it goes.

If Hilal is sighted on the 29th of Shabaan, it is the night of Ramadan. if it is not sighted and there are confirmed news of Hilal being sighted somewhere else, it is the night of Ramadan, otherwise, it is not Ramadan, and Shaaban must be completed 30 days. It is as easy as it may seem.

Regards
Ezzuddin
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------


14 Salman Zafar Shaikh

Wa Alaykum AsSalaam w.r. w.b.
What is your reference for the statement:

Salman Zafar Shaikh

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Ezzuddin:

 Asslamu alikum Brother Salman 


It has been narrated in (Akhbar Makkah- Al-Fakehy) that:

أشكل على الناس الهلال في أول حجة حجها عبد الملك بن مروان من خلافته ، فشاور في ذلك أقواما ، فلم يجد عندهم بيانا لما يريد ، فأمر ، فنصب المنبر في يوم سابع وهو قبل يوم التروية بيوم ، فخطب فحمد الله تعالى وأثنى عليه ثم قال : « أيها الناس إن الله عز وجل جعل أمر الأمم من غيركم إلى أنفسهم يدبرون الأوان ، ويقيمون الزمان ، فيصرفون أعيادهم أنى شاءوا بظن وحسبان ، ألا وإن الله عز وجل ملك عليكم أمركم ، فجعل الأهلة مواقيت الناس ألا وإن الله عز وجل أخفى عليكم هذا ؛ ليبتليكم فيعلم أيكم المتبع من المضيع ، ألا وإني شاورت أقواما ، فلم أجد عندهم شفاء لما في الصدور ، وأتاني الركب من كل وجهة يخبروني عن رؤية الهلال قبل اليوم الذي يأتي لكم ، ولم أجد فيهم من أثق بشهادته عن ثبات معرفته عندي ، وإنما تعبدنا الله عز وجل بإجازة شهادة المعروفين ولعله أن يكون فيهم ممن لا أعرف قوم هم أوثق ممن أعرف ، ولكن الحق والسنة أولى أن تتبع ، ألا إني قد رأيت رأيا ، فإن أصب فمن الله تعالى وإن أخطئ فمبلغ اجتهادي ، والله أسأل التوفيق ، وأنا خارج بالناس من غد يومنا هذا إلى منى ، وهذا اليوم الذي يزعم من سبقنا إلى رؤية الهلال أنه يوم التروية، وأقف بهم من غد ذلك اليوم ، وهو الذي يزعم من تأخر في الرؤية أنه يوم التروية ، ثم أفيض بهم إلى جمع ، ثم أصبح بهم راجعين إلى عرفات ، فأقف بهم وقفة أخرى ، وأؤخر نسكهم، فيحلون وينحرون في اليوم الذي يزعم أولئك أنه يوم النفر، فإن يكن القول ما قالوا لم يضرهم تأخير مناسكهم ويكون ما فعلت زيادة في أعمالهم ، وعلى الله أجر العاملين » قال : فوقف بالناس يومين.

Which I translate to (underlined sentences only to make story short):
{People got confused on the first Hajj of Khalifa Abdel-Malik ben Marawan (65-66h). He consulted whoever were available, but got no satisfying answer. Then, he ordered on the 7th day of Zul-Hejja (a day before the day of Tarweya) to speak to gathering pilgrims, and said (After praising God Subhanahu Wa Ta’aala):

[Oh people: …. I consulted (whoever I trust) but, I got no satisfying answer, and people came in caravans from every side saying that they sighted the Hilal the day before we sighted it. But I couldn’t trust in their Shehada, (They could be worthy of trust) but I don’t know them …… I will make a decision, if correct, it is from God, if wrong, it is mine. This is the best I can do. I ask guidance from God.
…… and he made Arafat in two days (to satisfy two sighted Hilals) !!!!!}
------------------

From the Book of (Inba’a Al-Ghamr…  إنباء الغمر بأبناء العمر في التاريخ ) by Ibn Hajar Al-Asqalani: (narrating the historical event of the Higri Year 845 in Egypt, vol/page=9/167), and on the event of pilgrims arriving from Cairo to Makkah, he said:

}كان وصول الركب إلى مكة سحر يوم الخميس ، ولم يروا الهلال تلك الليلة لكثرة الغيم ، وسألوا أهل مكة فلم يخبر أحد منهم برؤيته . وتمادوا على أن الوقفة تكون يوم السبت ، وأشار عليهم القاضي الشافعي أن يخرجوا يوم الخميس ويسيروا إلى عرفة ليدركوا الوقوف ليلة السبت احتياطا ويقفوا يوم السبت أيضا . فبينا هم على ذلك إذ دخل الركب الشامي فأخبروا برؤية الهلال ليلة الخميس وانه ثبت عند قاضيهم ، فبنوا على ذلك ووقفوا يوم الجمعة ونفروا ليلة السبت على العادة {

Which I translate to:
 [Caravan arrived Makkah late night of Thursday. No Hilal was sighted for the start of Zul-Hajja by either the Caravan, or by Mekkan People, because it was too cloudy. They agreed on having Saturday as Arafat’s day -9th of Zul-Hijja- to satisfy Zul-Qe’da 30 days. The Shafe’y Judge (Scholar) advised them to go directly on Thursday to Arafat to catch whatever left of Friday and stay in Arafat on Saturday, just in case. While they were arranging for that, The Caravan from Sham (Palestine and Syria) just arrived, confirming that they had sighted the Hilal of Zul-Hijja on the night of previous Thursday, and the Hilal Sighting was confirmed by their local judge, Thus confirming that Zul-Qe’da was 29 days. People took their words for granted, and all have Arafat on Friday and Nafra on Saturday as usual.]

Regards
Ezzuddin
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Salman Zafar Shaikh

Wa Alaykum AsSalaam w.r. w.b.
Very interesting. I am forwarding to a couple of brothers more
knowledgeable than I in this matter.

Also,  your earlier email - one possible explanation is acceptance of
sighting from outside the city only if the city is clouded.

Wallahu Alam. May Allaah SWT guide to the best. Aameen.

Salman Zafar Shaikh
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
  
15- Sani Mustapha 

Assalamu alaika Ezzuddin.

Salaam.
What is the meaning and significant of the visibility curves by Odeh and Shawkat?  Are hey not saying that the world should be divided into those zones? Monzour divided the world into 3 zones for moon-sighting. Professor Muhammad Ilyas to my memory did the same thing. I do not understand what some brothers are trying to do. There cannot be Global sighting for that is against the Shari'a and individuals right to obey and disobey. We are not born as Leviathans just to swim.

Mustapha.

---------------------------------------------------------
Ezzuddin:

Brother Mustapha 
Asslamu alikum

"visibility curves" are estimations or predictions for anticipating Hilal sighting. It is not unique. It is just modeling, built on astronomical and mathematical procedures, giving the probability for good or bad or intermediate visibility as functions of time and location. You can read more about that on this link

Regards,
Ezzuddin
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

16- Sani Mustapha 

Assalamu alaika Ezzuddin.

Salaam.
Read Nayl-awtar by Shawkani the hadith where ibn Abbas or ibn Umar mentioned that the people of Iraq can sight their moon at a different time from that of Madina.
Mustapha

---------------------------------------------------------
Ezzuddin:

Brother Mustapha 
Asslamu alikum 

Tthe Hadeeth you are refering to in "Nayl-awtar" and other books, most probably it is the Hadeeth known by the name (Hadeeth Kurayb)"حديث كُرَيب

Simply its meaning goes like this: When Ibn Abbas was in Madina and Mu'awyia in Damascus, (Kurayb) visited Damascus and started Ramadan there. When he returned back to Madina after some days, Ibn Abbas asked him: When did you see Hilal (in Damascus)? - Kurayb answered: the night of Friday. Ibn Abbas asked: Did you see it yourself? - Kurayb said: Yes, I did, Mu'awyia, and all people, and we started fasting (on Friday).  Ibn Abbas said: but we (in Madina) saw it on the night of Saturday. So we will continue Ramadan until we see it (at the end of Ramadan) or complete it (30 days). - Kurayb asked: Wouldn't you adopt the sighting of Mu'awyia (a day earlier)? Ibn Abbas said: No, This is the way the messenger of God PBUH ordered us to do.

Islamic literature is full of interpretations of this Hadeeth.
I understood it to be a sign for isolated communities to sight Hilal independently. By isolation, I mean: those separated communities between which communications need more than a full night at least. 
Now, this condition is not available with modern communications, so we are not isolated any more, and the Hadeeth does not apply to our modern time.

Regards,
Ezzuddin  
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هناك 4 تعليقات:

  1. السلام عليكم لم افهم الحوار بشكل كامل لكن اللذي فهمتة ان هناك خلاف ما زائل قائم ماهي نقطة الخلاف في هذة الحوار التي لم يتفق معك فيها المحاورون

    ردحذف
    الردود
    1. عليكم السلام ورحمة الله

      يريدون الحفاظ على ما يُسمى بـ (اختلاف المطالع) والذي يعني أن كل موقع على الأرض (أو إقليم .. رغم أنهم لم يستطيعوا تحديد أبعاده) له مطلع مختلف للهلال، ومن ثم يستقل كل إقليم بدخول الشهر الهجري.

      حاولت إقناعهم أن هذا التصور كان مرتبطاً بغياب التواصل المعرفي بين الأقاليم (البلدان) وأن البلد الفلاني لا يمكن أن يعلم برؤية الهلال في إقليم آخر لتباعده عنه. وأن تغير الأحوال، ووصول المعلومات الآن لحظياً قد ألغى هذا السبب (ومن ثم "المفهوم برمته"). .. ولكنهم لم يقتنعوا! .. أو لم يستوعبوا .. وظنوا أن (اختلاف المطالع) أمر مرتبط بخصيصة وقوع الرؤية في كل إقليم.. وليس بوصول خبر رؤية هلال قد رآه الناس يقينا في مكان ما.

      ولو استوعبوا التصور الذي حاولت تبسيطه .. لكان للمسلمين هلال واحد، وليلة واحدة على الأرض جميعاً لدخول كل شهر هجري (رمضان أو غيره) حتى وإن توزعت الليلة على يومين فلكيين في التقاويم. لأن الليلة (الشرعية) يمكن أن تبدأ من أي موقع على الارض (من لحظة رؤية الهلال)، وليس بالضرورة من شرق نيوزيلانده .. والتي يبدأ معها اليوم الفلكي المعتمد الآن في التقاويم.

      حذف
  2. يا استاذ انا حزين جدا هل يعقل ان المختصين في العلم الشرعي وفي علم الفلك ليس فيهم رجل رشيد وذكي

    لاحول ولا قوة الا بالله يا استاذ ارجوك ما مشكلة هؤلاء المختصين بهذا الامر اكاد اجن لمذا هذا الجمود في الفهم

    اليس هناك من يؤيد قولك من المختصين اللذين تعرفهم ؟ ام الكل رافض اجد فكرتك ممتازة

    استاذ هل تقصد ان ممكن دولة ان تعلن رمضان حتى ولم تثبت رؤية الهلال او ثبت استحالة الرؤية في هذا البلد اعتمادا على بلد اخر قد ثبتت الرؤية فية

    اتمنى ان تبسط لي مفهوم رؤية الهلال والمشكلة الدائرة حول تحديد مطلع الشهر لعدم اختصاصي بهذا الامر حيث منذ سنوات وانا مستغرب لمذا لاتصوم الدول كلها مع بعض وهل يجب ان تصوم مع بعض وهل رؤية الهلال في بلد تسقط رؤيتة في بلد اخر

    ردحذف
    الردود
    1. سأختصر عليك المشوار

      قرار وحدة الهلال : ...
      بالدرجة الأولى: سياسي،
      ثم بالدرجة الثانية: طائفي مذهبي،
      ثم تتأثر قرارات منظمة المؤتمر الإسلامي والمجامع الإسلامية سلباً بهذين المصدرين.

      كما يتبع كل عالم أو زمرة منهم، تقاليد دولتهم أو طائفتهم أو مذهبهم، أو أنهم أحرار الرأي مخلصين للحق، ولكنهم إما ضعفاء الحجة أو ضعفاء الاستدلال أو ضعفاء الإحاطة بحيثيات المسألة. ... فتكون النتيجة إما عدم العلم الكافي، أو عدم الاعتبار بآرائهم من قبل أصحاب القرار.

      هذا والله تعالى وحده أعلم.

      حذف